I have been reading around the net, that Ubuntu is becoming a bit of a problem for many in the Linux world.  Mint is still based on it, but Debian seems to be more popular as a BASE for distros these days.

Anyone care to comment?

Cancer...

SNAP would seem to be at the root(pardon the pun) of the problem.
Mint even remove it as part of their distro, but it would seem to be NOT EASY.

Thoughts?

The video I linked to is only six days old, and has a 1900 likes to 115 dislikes ratio, so that suggests people tend to agree with it.

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Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!

Grogster,

I have Linux Mint LMDE6 Faye. No problem with it. Stable as a rock, fast and easy.

EDIT: I've used Ubuntu too and I had never problems. But there was a guy who told me to use the Mint Debian version and he was right.

Regards,

Marcel
Edited 2025-07-05 17:41 by Grogster

I want to be clear - I am NOT trying to start a flame war etc, I am just interested in what the video says, vs what is actually going on.  ALL opinions are welcome here, as I hope to learn something new myself.  

@ Marcel27 - I was unaware that there WAS a Debian version of Mint.  I thought that ALL Mint's were based on Ubuntu.  Useful information!  
Edited 2025-07-05 17:42 by Grogster

If he's correct, it looks like Ubuntu have regressed back to the pre-Windows 10 equivalent of Linux. Windows had a lot of its system re-written specifically to avoid having to load multiple copies of the same libraries and Snap seems to break this.

I knew MX Linux was a better idea. :) No systemd, which Snap needs to work. Definitely an improvement! As far as I'm concerned it's systemd that's the real cancer in Linux. It tries to make Linux work like Windows rather than Linux.

LMDE is a version of Mint that's based on Debian Stable rather than Ubuntu. It looks like Mint but the engine is different and IMHO probably better. Neither Mint nor LMDE have Snap installed.

I've yet to use snap and it sounds like I won't rush!

John

I ran into many of the issues he mentions last week because I was trying to setup a new environment on Linux to build Pico code using the Pico SDK using Visual Studio.

I hit all the Snap issues and Browser issues he is talking about.   I punted and started bringing up what I needed on a Windows machine.

This bloat and dictatorship is going to take a while to get fixed.   But I'm thinking the Linux community is going to rebel and force things to get better.

The "snap" problem only affects those distros using snap (obviously), so just avoid those ones.  Plenty of others to choose from.

John

I'll stick to 22.04 until 27 :)) ..for the desktop

Debian is nice enough to use now that Ubuntu kind of gets in the way. So the reason for Debian existing has gone away.

I'm stuck with my legacy desktop machine running Ubuntu. It used to be possible to turn off the snapd system and install all packages via normal methods. But now browsers (that I'd want to use) come *only* as snaps, so I've had to allow snaps on my system again. It has turned the Ubuntu desktop into a Windows-like "Restart to install system upgrades" experience. To get basic security updates, you have to register your Ubuntu system.

Having lost too many of my family and friends to various forms of cancer, I wouldn't use that term about any software.

I'm using Mint 21.3 because of the icon and desktop theme and the best overall experience. If I take the artwork and install it on a Debian it almost looks the same. But industrial support is best with ubuntu base so I'll wait for the overall outcome and might be finally using pure Debian.

Hi All

I use Debian 13 which boots to password request in 20 sec's and takes 5 sec's after entering the password .
Of course this depends entirely on your processor.

I am using a Ryzen 7 with 2 SSD's.
Also use Debian on machines installed in factories and lately on Rpi Zero W.
Even on the Pi Zero on my Pi-Pad it is that quick.

I tried Ubuntu but gave up very quickly, can't remember why.(probably to much bloat)
However on multiple occasions I went to install a package that was only available in Snap.
Each time Debian either allowed me to un-install it, or I re-wrote the disk image.

Now I only install a new package from a .deb file, from the command line or Synaptic.
Use Brave as my Browser on desktop but Netsurf on the Pi (fast & less memory hungry)
For File browser I use Thunar on both.

The only annoying thing with Debian is that on each new install I have to spend an hour
just deleting all the games from the system.

Regards
Edited 2025-07-06 06:37 by Dinosaur

Try MX Linux. It's Debian-based and doesn't come with too much junk. It's also a *very* nice distro with a *very* useful manual there on the desktop!  :)

LMDE from Mint looks and feels very much like the other versions but has no Ubuntu in in it. It was originally intended to enable Mint to continue even if Ubuntu became unavailable. Once again, it's Debian-based.

  Mixtel90 said  

If he's correct, it looks like Ubuntu have regressed back to the pre-Windows 10 equivalent of Linux. Windows had a lot of its system re-written specifically to avoid having to load multiple copies of the same libraries and Snap seems to break this.

I knew MX Linux was a better idea. :) No systemd, which Snap needs to work. Definitely an improvement! As far as I'm concerned it's systemd that's the real cancer in Linux. It tries to make Linux work like Windows rather than Linux.

LMDE is a version of Mint that's based on Debian Stable rather than Ubuntu. It looks like Mint but the engine is different and IMHO probably better. Neither Mint nor LMDE have Snap installed.

It's fairly easy to remove snap from Ubuntu:

Remove Snap From Ubuntu

  Mixtel90 said  

Try MX Linux. It's Debian-based and doesn't come with too much junk. It's also a *very* nice distro with a *very* useful manual there on the desktop!  :)

I agree.  

I still have it setup on one of my spare machines, but it is more modern hardware.
Recent experiments in building a NAS, have proven that MX really DOES NOT like older hardware and limited RAM, but so long as you have a reasonably recent CPU and say - 8GB of RAM minimum - MX is a lovely system.

Speaking as technically still a Linux newbie.

I must have a play around with LMDE, as all the ones I ever used, were the ones based on Ubuntu.

Canonical (the organization behind Ubuntu) is a for-profit company with (currently) a single owner and plans, at some future time, to publicly list. as such, they are driven by the desire to maximize returns/profits for the current owner and future shareholders.

as such, they are much the same as Apple and Microsoft, and need to pursue a product model that continuously increases customer base and extracts income from said customers. to do this, they need to 'lock in' existing customers using propriety additions, the likes of Snap being just one example, are a necessity. Canonical need to take the existing GNU/Linux and swap out components they have no control over for 'better' ones that can generate revenue for the company; update support systems, propriety (Snap) packages, user registration systems, etc.

this is all just Free Market 101. up until now Ubuntu has been a "leaky boat", where Mint and other distros have just been cherry-picking pieces of Ubuntu to build their own distributions. Canonical is now slowly moving to 'patch up the leaky ship' to ensure the company survives, customer base grows indefinitely, and (future) shareholder returns are maximized.


cheers,
rob   :-)

Rob,

Yes, that impression came to me as well. In any case, what we don't need is a company that will abuse Linux and turn it into a Windows nightmare. Let's not fall into this trap.

Thanks to everyone for the interesting information about distros.

Marcel

When Snap came out I considered installing it on my Fedora workstation. I did a bit of research and decided I did not want it on my system. Beyond how it interoperates with the core system, it does not coexist well with SELinux security, so makes it a non-starter for me.

It would seem the general consensus of Snap, is that most people don't really like it.
Would that be fair to say?

I thought it might get more defense, but apparently even the members here who use Linux, aren't exactly singing it's praises....

I don't see the real value. I use DNF to install/manage software on my workstation. It is very simple. There have been other tools for years but I just don't see a real need. I would not want to run a server or workstation without SELinux (enforcing everything) and would not want deficient environments running on any machine on my network.

SNAP seems like an unnecessary solution looking for a problem. The problem might be user unfamiliarity with an OS. Or maybe it is just Canonical looking for another revenue train, like the Linux licensing enforcement they tried to force us into in the past. I don't know, but I also would not want to be trapped into being dependent on SNAP. I am not a big Microsoft or Google fan either.

I had a look at the video, but it was a bit beyond me.
I have been using Ubuntu for years now and don't have any problems with it.
Most of the time I download software that I want and install it without using Snap.
So no problems for me
Pete