"Simple" embedded control platforms wouldn't usually have any sort of wireless connectivity. You'd often have to pay extra to get a serial port (if one was available at all). For the most part they are more of an enhanced state machine.

  lizby said  

  Tinine said  

Hmmm, wishlist: ... Android tablet running RFO-BASIC and with TeamViewer or Airdroid loaded and set-up in "Kiosk" mode to restrict access. The perfect front-end for a MCU

And perfect for controlling an ESP device running Annex. That's how I've used it (except plain android and a browser). We're on the same page, I think.

~

I was thinking about trying something with RFO-BASIC being driven by MMBasic....is this what REPL is?

From MMBasic:



Sent via BlueTooth to the Android device. The Android device, driven by the Mite(?)


Craig

  Mixtel90 said  

"Simple" embedded control platforms wouldn't usually have any sort of wireless connectivity. You'd often have to pay extra to get a serial port (if one was available at all). For the most part they are more of an enhanced state machine.

That's so 1999. Even in 2002 I had a wired "ethernet" connection from a picaxe through a nifty "SimpleLan" device to a tiny router running openWrt and connected to the web, and shortly after that wireless routers with sensors in remote places.

Several times I've gotten notifications from my sensors from a thousand miles away that something was awry with my heating system, and I've been able to get the plumber there before damage was done.

Since 2009, my "rivercam" has given anybody in the world access to a picaxe "embedded controller" which can pan and tilt a camera.

Wireless is happening. There are now wireless industrial controllers...Including safety devices.

I don't know if I'll get the opportunity but I'd like to be the first in my industry to completely re-fit a machine without control-signal wires. Only power.

I am to blame for the 100%-electric CNC tube-bender (US Patent: 5,862,697) and now pretty much every manufacturer in the world is doing this.
The problem though is that; we are talking an awful lot of small multi-conductor cables constantly to-ing and fro-ing through flexible cable chains and very tight radii. These cables take only so much before they fracture and need replacing (PITA).

Due to the arrival of smaller, more efficient motor-drivers, I want to distribute these controllers around the machine, supply them with DC power only and control them wirelessly.

Prolly never get the opportunity  

Craig

Yes - but your "SimpleLan" device did the work that the Picaxe probably couldn't, like handling a TCP/IP stack. There's no problem in that, just as there's no problem in linking a ESP8266 to a PicoMite. It's leaving the specialised device to do what it's good at. You can connect a PicoMite to a wlan like that over a COM port - it's the default mode for the ESP8266. You can even make the ESP8266 into a simple web server controlled by the PicoMite.

What you shouldn't be doing though is to expect the PicoMite to give full, individual BASIC commands to control something hanging off a COM port (which is the only sensible way to drive comms stuff). That's illogical as there is already a general way to handle it in the language. If your job is too complicated for that then you are using the wrong system. :)

  Mixtel90 said  

Yes - but your "SimpleLan" device did the work that the Picaxe probably couldn't, like handling a TCP/IP stack. There's no problem in that, just as there's no problem in linking a ESP8266 to a PicoMite.

True about the simplelan, and if it were still 2002, I'd be glad to have a micromite talking to an esp. But now, the esp with annex can do both the controlling and the web talking--in a manner more convenient than picomite talking to whatever over serial.

Guys,

Play with Annex before saying it can be done with MMBasic and an ESP8266.
Yes, it is basic, but it also supports html and associated animations.

It is made for internet, basic, but more focussed on internet. And it is not perfect, but different.

Hi All,
I'm happy to see that there is a debate around Annex, even if sometime in a not very constructive way.

I'm surprised someone found there was a dog inside, even though I thought I put a cat inside.   I'll try to catch up in the next update.
The only thing I can say is that speed isn't everything, but simplicity and availability of high-level commands (like telegram, email, ESP-NOW, etc.) simplify the writing of programs which, often, can be summed up in a few lines of code.

Probably it easier to drive downtown using a little car than a F1 car.

I would be curious to see how to code an e-mail protocol using only AT commands and how fast it would run compared to what Annex can do.

Annex is not a "simply front-ends for AT strings that you could just as easily send over a normal COM" but a basic interpreter that works in complete autonomy allowing wireless connectivity to the WEB and to other devices (using Bluetooth, ESP-NOW or UDP protocols, for example).

So, maybe, give it a try and make up your own opinion.

I understand that maybe someone has concerns about the license, but that has nothing to do with performance and usability.

Regards,
cicciocb

  cicciocb said  

I understand that maybe someone has concerns about the license, but that has nothing to do with performance and usability.

Regards,
cicciocb

Huh? Makes it totally unusable for me  

When I first came across it...I immediately ordered a bunch of M5stack product because this sounded like a good link to my machine controller. I only read the license after the product was enroute....I never even bothered to load it up with Annex32. I ran its little internal demo then tossed it in the back of the cupboard.




Craig

Edit: There is nothing unusual about having a "free-for-personal use" and a license for professional use.
When I initially checked MMBasic's license, it stated [paraphrasing] "contact us for commericial licensing" and so i went with it. Trying to pay for it turned up to be futile, however.  
Edited 2022-07-06 23:37 by Tinine

  Tinine said  

Huh? Makes it totally unusable for me  

When I first came across it...I immediately ordered a bunch of M5stack product because this sounded like a good link to my machine controller. I only read the license after the product was enroute....I never even bothered to load it up with Annex32. I ran its little internal demo then tossed it in the back of the cupboard.


Craig

This confirms my feeling about the judgment given ....

I just play by the rules. I get paid for what I do with MCUs and so I have no problem paying for whatever I need.

I use the free FlexBasic on the Parallax Propeller but every time I use a Propeller in a product, I make another donation to the author.


Craig

  cicciocb said  

This confirms my feeling about the judgment given ....

Why would anyone waste time on something that they are prohibited from using?


Craig

All this stemmed from wanting complex wi-fi commands (e.g. for email, web pages) in MMBasic. It simply wouldn't be practical. You can, however, already control any Hayes-compatible device via a COM port so no specialised commands are needed.

The Hayes command set writes to registers in the device. That's low level. "Modem" devices like the ESP8266 let you connect to network servers using these. It has its own TCP/IP handling so that takes the load off the PicoMite. The PicoMite can use it to send emails through a SMPT server. Basically, adding a ESP8266 to a Pico makes it into something close to a Pico W but without the bluetooth. :)

It doesn't matter how you talk to the RF chips. Because their communication is serial you can use most serial hardware links to control them - you'll still have to wait for responses from them. UART, SPI, I2C it doesn't really matter, there's no speed advantage - you just sit in wait loops for longer with a fast connection.

I'm not arguing that Annex is necessarily bad in any way - but it's not something that *could* run on a Pico and modelling MMBasic commands on it would mean that they would have to be commands that translated into AT commands, as that's MMBasic's window on the world. Annex may indeed be the greatest bit of firmware going - on it's own specialised platform and for its own specialised purposes. It's a tool for integrated control and RF communications, which the PicoMite isn't. It's better at its own job than a PicoMite could ever be - and that's by design. The PicoMite was never intended to do that.

  Tinine said  

Why would anyone waste time on something that they are prohibited from using?

Because the majority of us here are not doing commercial work and thus are not prohibited from using Annex. There may be liability issues, maybe EU-related, that cicciocb is concerned with that Geoff and Peter have not felt they needed to be concerned with.

I have to say that aside from Tinine, most of the people here who have been disparaging of Annex appear never to have used it (thus the misinformation). Not only has there been no evident understanding of the actual features which Annex provides, there has been no apparent appreciation of what UDP, web server capability, email or integrated bluetooth can offer to someone wishing to do home automation stuff using Basic.

I am a great fan of MMBasic, and play with it nearly every day, but none of my nearly 2 dozen home automation installations in two locations 2,000 miles apart use it because it does not natively talk to my routers and my phone and the world at large.

I agree with Tinine that an android phone makes the ideal (convenient, ubiquitous, familiar to all) user interface (either custom, like his, or through a browser).  That's easy to provide with Annex, and hard with MMBasic.

For those who don't want those features, fine--but don't run down this excellent piece of software without even knowing what it is capable of.

Thanks Lizby into supporting Annex,
it's a shame to send bad judgments without having even seen what it is about.

Maybe you should have a look at this module:


This module contains an RP2040 and an ESP32-C3, better than a simple ESP8266 and much better than the CYW43439 proposed in the pico W
Edited 2022-07-07 01:17 by cicciocb

My problem isn't with Annex, but with wanting MMBasic to be something like it. They are different beasts with different aims and you use the one that fits your particular task. As I pointed out earlier, you wouldn't use MMBasic if you wanted compiled code, it's completely unsuitable.

The fact that the above board uses a RP2040 doesn't make it a PicoMite with a RF chip on it. In fact, the extra components are using pins that are either already dedicated or are available for use on a PicoMite. It may be closer to a Pico W (which is more general purpose, especially under Python), but not to a PicoMite. The ESP32-C3 looks really good though, and this seems to be a nice little module. :)

@lizby

For home automation, an inexpensive Android phone + Picomite(s) + HC-05 would be hard to beat:

Nice screen with GPU power
Front camera can be used for motion detection
Ability to send text messages as well as email
Can provide audio for music or verbal alerts/alarms
Aesthetically tolerable to the missus  

A very capable Basic interpreter

Highly recommended extras

The old manual

And because it is open source there are derivatives such as OliBasic, Humpty Basic and GrauBasic.

Example of using Bluetooth:


No Java, no Eclipse, no compiling  

Craig

I have one of those Lilygo modules on the way. Wondering if I can program the ESP32 with compiled B4R.


Craig

  Tinine said  

For home automation, an inexpensive Android phone + Picomite(s) + HC-05 would be hard to beat:

Only beaten, in my experience, by Android phone (which I carry around all the time) and ESP8266 or ESP32 with Annex. Or, depending on the application, Android phone and Sonoff ESP wifi switch running Tasmoto.

@lizby

Sorry, that's no competition...I could blow that away for lower cost [throws down gauntlet]

Annex pales in comparison  



Craig