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lizby
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Posted: 15 January 2018 at 1:36am | IP Logged Quote lizby

"So there! How do you like my imitation of Trump????????"

Way too civilized, not to mention knowledgeable. You didn't insult anybody--"fighting stupid internecine wars" is too generic to count.


Edited by lizby on 15 January 2018 at 1:37am



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Boppa
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Posted: 15 January 2018 at 2:03am | IP Logged Quote Boppa

more than 270 characters, so obviously fake news lol
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Paul_L
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Posted: 15 January 2018 at 10:08am | IP Logged Quote Paul_L

I'm sorry, I'll try harder the next time.
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Paul_L
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Posted: 15 January 2018 at 10:36am | IP Logged Quote Paul_L

robert.rozee wrote:
firstly: i've found this thread really interesting, even though i don't understand much about heatpumps.

FIDDLESTICKS! There's little to understand. All that heat is there in the ground continuously moving up to the surface, you've got to interdict it and pump it up the temperature hill to a hotter temperature and temporarily store it in a house. You take Freon backwards and forwards through its entropy of vaporization and condensation and you pump the heat uphill.

Quote:
just a crazy idea that came to mind! in new zealand (and australia) many rural properties used to use (multiple) small windmills to pump irrigation water from underground aquifers.

Using well water directly as a heat source and then returning it to the aquifer through another well is called "open loop geothermal" as opposed to "closed loop geothermal". It can be very efficient if the source of the water is clean. If the well water is either a salt solution, highly acidic, highly basic, or carries a lot of debris it just messes up heat exchangers.

My well water, which I drink because we are too far out in the boondocks to have a municipal water supply, has some very strange stuff in it. There is no harmful bacteria, but I personally think there might be a decaying brontosaurus down there. I run it all through three filters, 20 micron, 1 micron, and a carbon block, then an untraviolet sterilizer just in case. Then I have an osmotic filter hooked up to the kitchen sink and the refrigerator ice maker and the coffee tastes more or less normal. I still would not like to put it through a heat exchanger. I suspect that the heat exchanger would require frequent, repetitive cleaning.

Besides, open loop pumping would require more pumping power than closed loop. The acquifer I tap is down about 245 feet. The pump would have to overcome the static head plus any dynamic head produced by the heat exchanger. Then the water would be returned down a second well thereby losing all the potential energy built up in it by lifting it out of the first well. In a closed loop using deep vertical bores the weight of the water in the downbound loop will counterbalance the weight of the water in the upbound loop thereby reducing the pumping power drastically.

My loop does not use a deep vertical bore. The pump is in the cellar. The loop runs up the shallow hill behind the house and returns back to the pump in the cellar. The net static vertical head is zero. The pump just has to overcome the dynamic head resulting from the movement of the water through the 6000 feet of pipe and the heat exchanger.

I am using two 1/6 HP pumps in series to pump 25 gallons per minute. In an open loop vertical bore 250 feet tall I would probably require about 1.5HP to pump 25 gallons per minute. There is no way I could tap that much reliable power from a windmill in this relatively flat location in the Hudson Valley. The idea is to move the heat carrying water around by using the smallest amount of power which dictates the use of a nearly horizontal closed loop with a small static head.

Paul in NY


Edited by Paul_L on 15 January 2018 at 10:44am
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