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flc1
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Posted: 03 January 2017 at 12:52am | IP Logged Copy link to clipboard   Quote flc1

well said Phill. But a 500w diffrence at the bottom of the scale, thats a big error, so your over all watts per day reading means little with an error like that,you can't make refrence to that,,,, correct?
at no point during that vid could I see the same watts for the same rpm from both those turbines, the one with the new blades was always higher watts per rpm,,,if that is a fault with your datta collection, then maybe you need to just go back to the tryed and proven needle meters to get more accurate power output for a comparison of the 2 turbines? Fred

Edited by flc1 on 03 January 2017 at 1:25am



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DaveP68
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Posted: 03 January 2017 at 2:12am | IP Logged Copy link to clipboard   Quote DaveP68

Hi Pihll

Didn't mean to cause any upset here, as like I said was looking forward to getting those blades, if you missed it the first time.

All I was pointing out is that you "might" have an instrumentation error at certain RPM/wind speeds etc. Not trying to dispute the overall power difference and top end performance.

If both PMA's are identical and they should be. At say 300 RPM you get 500W on one unit then the other PMA when it gets to 300 RPM should give the same 500W reading. From observation on the YouTube video @ 8:11 first view of PMA GOE blades 293 RPM 546 W then at 8:33 for second PMA 286 RPM 124 W please explain this? Watching the refresh rate in the same video the readings of RPM/Power output in W are refreshing about every 1.4 seconds.

I've done extensive testing a lathe recently up to 1155 RPM with 36 and 42 pole stators. The 36 pole stator with a black rotor produces 40% more power than any 60s, 80s & 100s stator regardless of how they are wired.

So what I'm saying here testing 2 identical 36 pole copper stators wired the same each using ac black rotor cap, the power output of each will be the same (within say 1%).

PMA RPM should closely correlate to power output in W, so when the 2 wind turbines that may have different blades reach the same RPM the power output should be the same. This is how I understand the PMA operation.

Also the anemometer reading like you say could be leading or lagging by 3-6 seconds. The other 3-6 second refresh rate you refer to is the power plotting which I made no reference to.

David

Edited by DaveP68 on 03 January 2017 at 3:54am
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flc1
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Posted: 03 January 2017 at 4:20am | IP Logged Copy link to clipboard   Quote flc1

Phill, I have no problem with your blades at all.
Im just making an honest observation, we all have to take some criticrism at some stage on things that we put in the public domain.
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fillm
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Posted: 03 January 2017 at 6:22am | IP Logged Copy link to clipboard   Quote fillm

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the input, and yea you are right I dont need this sh!t, but

Fred & Dave,. As I stated the loggers are the best that can be done with out having the budget of CSIRO or any given University, in my back pocket. Believe me I put a fair bit back into R&D. Now the data loggers not only are std in the OZ Wind range of turbines 1 - 2.5kw but can be wireless and can be moved as easily as taking a USB stick, this allows other power controls to be easily be switched at differing areas away from the main battery ... like pool pump , hot water Air/con... etc

Wind speed does affects data refresh rate, the rpm will also be a calculation on an AC frequency / a constant. Rpm will rise and fall in multiples of 10 / 15, I can not remember exactly . Sometimes you get a bounce number that charts off the scale which is seen a couple of times if you look for it. If you think it is better to have analog gauges with a vid camera and try to show performance, that's your opinion. As far as the 500W you talk of where is that in the time line exactly?

DaveP68 wrote:

If both PMA's are identical and they should be. At say 300 RPM you get 500W on one unit then the other PMA when it gets to 300 RPM should give the same 500W reading. From observation on the YouTube video @ 8:11 first view of PMA GOE blades 293 RPM 546 W then at 8:33 for second PMA 286 RPM 124 W please explain this?
David


This might explain

It has been so long since I have looked at the Vid, all of that setup is long gone and out of my head. Back then all the power from the 2 x 2kw turbines + 2.5kw of solar is being fed into a small 225Amp/hr 48V Lead Acid battery bank, then 2 x 1200W Latronics PVE Grid Inverters pull power out above 52.3V. Because of the ability of the turbines to have surges above 4kW combined there is a 25 x 3000 Farad Boost Cap bank in parallel that can absorb 8kW's for 30 -40 sec in a 53 - 59 Voltage rise, this allows for the grid inverters time to react and capture power surges.

If you had any question, it should be asking why is one Power vs Out-put live on-screen display showing all the data dots accumulated and grouped to one side of the Graph power curve. It shows higher Rpm at lower output where the OZ Wind GOE 2kW has a concentrated line going up out of the set range of 2kw.
Some one with a keen eye and understands how and what happens with a wind turbine when a diversion control is switched in & out, also would know that when out-put is directly coupled to the dump load would realize that rpm / volts then become Wild AC and in reality it will eventually try to stop and stall the blades and if the blades can not power through the shaft load that is dictated by the resistor size.

All this is happening when the other turbine with the GOE blades is direct connected to the batteries but with Dump Control . If I had the GOE set swapped then you would most likely see a runaway rpm line because they would easily over power the resistor load at the wind speed on that day..
The system on high wind days at that time had no other option, the Solar Mppt and PWM turbine controller is set below the the dump load for the OZ Wind Huaya. And yes it could be a bit misleading if not understood and I do my best to give the best and honest reliable data and overview of performance.

I don't think I need a lesson in how turbine power is calculated or what happens when anemometers are placed close to blades. There is also a 3rd Davis Weather station anemometer that is mounted lower on one tower. The anemometers are calibrated to it and virtually have exactly daily high and are always very close to the Davis.

These days I have a large Lithium bank and soaking a 10kw surge is easily done. I have a 3 phase 5kW grid tie with 8.5kw of panels and the house the workshop is constantly supplied from the off - Grid system with 5kW of solar and 2 towers and a 3rd going in soon specifically for testing large Var-pitch blade sets. So i can say that OZ wind is totally carbon neutral / negative. 99% All my packing is second hand cardboard

flc1 wrote:
Phill, I have no problem with your blades at all.
Im just making an honest observation, we all have to take some criticism at some stage on things that we put in the public domain.


Fred - I can guarantee I have had more flack than anyone else here over the years,and if it is me being wrong then I take that on the chin and do my best to correct it.

I also dont know what you call an honest observation, its confusing when in the previous line you do not have a problem with the blades but do not even have them yet. Is that from watching a short vid because so far you have made your comment on youtube as well as here, with the explanation disclaimer that if in the public arena I should take criticism.
But it seems you are criticizing firstly with no foundation which is guilty before trail.
I have not had one customers response to be any thing under jaw dropping amazement and sometimes followed by reducing blade Dia to even have had a customer that has 2 blade sets for his 1kW, 1 at 2.8m and the other at 2mtrs..
Quite a few times it meets with disaster because the customers do not heed my warnings on mounting design strength which always means twice the blade sales.

I will leave it there ...



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flc1
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Posted: 03 January 2017 at 6:55am | IP Logged Copy link to clipboard   Quote flc1

Phill, Where have I written flack about your blades??? nowhere, not on youtube, I said the diffrent outputs have nothing to do with blades,and that is correct.
I have simply stated what I saw with your youtube vid, an observation of the output of both turbines at same rpm,IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR BLADES Phill, , they are as you say a proven design, thats why we ordered some. Fred
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DaveP68
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Posted: 03 January 2017 at 7:04am | IP Logged Copy link to clipboard   Quote DaveP68

Hi Phill

I fully except your detailed description of your full setup, which goes a long way to explain our observations of what has been seen in the YouTube video.

This sort of thing goes both ways, so please give that one some deeper thought for future reference.

Lets leave it there, like you say.

David

Edited by DaveP68 on 03 January 2017 at 7:05am
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windySE
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Posted: 02 July 2019 at 7:46pm | IP Logged Copy link to clipboard   Quote windySE

briggsy wrote:
Hi everyone,
I have a similar chinese turbine which I've had in the air for about 3 years now(in South Gippsland Victoria) For those earlier posts asking about the pivoting tail I've posted some video on youtube which shows the tail pivoting in high wind. There's also a couple of shots of the controller and inverter to show output.

http://youtu.be/wRKVbuPmc5w



Hi everyone,

Same Chinese turbine operating in the South-East of Romania for a few months now.

1.5 kw nominal power. I had to make the tail boom longer (about 50-60 cm longer) and I increased the surface of the tail vane in order to make it more stable and now produces over 2 kw of power in high winds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs94dYY6TsI&t=37s

and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9c2xAdDKQc

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