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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : MicroMite Beta 15
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graynomad Senior Member  Joined: 21/07/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 122 |
I would agree, a label like that can only mean what you are supposed to connect that to the console's TX signal. I'm so confused now I don't know if that's how the uM is labelled or not :) Forget DCEs and DTEs, the terms have no meaning when say connecting an Arduino to a Mite. Think of it this way, have you EVER seen a chip's data sheet with say the transmitter output labelled "Rx" because that pin should be connected to the receiving pin of another device. No. You label a device according to the function a signal has relative to THAT device, not some possible thing you may plug in one day. That said I agree that this is a confusing area at times, I always add arrows to the screen print so the data direction is clear. 
In this case there was no room for Tx/Rx labels, but if you add graphics they are not required anyway. Rob Gray, AKA the Graynomad, www.robgray.com |
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bigmik Guru  Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2870 |
Lads, I will throw my hat into the ring as well, I have been using RS23 for about 40 years and Rs485 (4 wire) for near 30 years and the RX and TX have ALWAYS been confusing.. The descriptions of DCE and DTE were ok with some devices but others were hard to determine if it should be DTE or DCE.. this is where breakout boxes were needed to test every new device... I vote for a new, less confusing, method of labelling. RXin or TXout does it for me but I can accept RXI/TXO or RXi/TXo conventions. Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9083 |
It's all going fine, the module that is. I have programmed it with beta 15, and am playing around, but I have not found any issues, so have not reported anything. I have not had THAT much time to play with beta 15, as I have gone back to trying to finish my other system based on the full-sized MM. Please can you PM me though, about how you get your boards so neat on the hand soldering! They are excellent. I have not played with the CPU speeds at all, but it is a handy feature, as if you don't need the speed, and especially if battery powered, then you can pull the throttle back a bit and still get the job done, but make the battery last longer! I guess the main reason I have not played with the speed command, is simply that I have not needed to slow the chip down during my testing of things. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2294 |
does this mean there will be spare flash for other things?! like MM.INTPIN, ASIN, ACOS, and maybe more space to save variables in with VAR SAVE. depending upon timing, the future release that supports RF modules could even be targeted exclusively for the 32MX170. regarding the RxD/TxD and DTE/DCE debate, i always employ this solution in all my projects: 
but DO be careful to only operate the switch with power removed: 
rob :-) |
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| graynomad Senior Member Joined: 21/07/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 122 |
 Rob Gray, AKA the Graynomad, www.robgray.com |
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CircuitGizmos Guru Joined: 08/09/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 1421 |
That isn't any clearer, honestly. It can still be confusing. Does the arrow that points to a pin mean data is transmitted out that pin from that board, or does it mean data should be transmitted TO that pin? I personally believe that pins should be labelled as to their function, not the function of things that connect to them. Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite |
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| graynomad Senior Member Joined: 21/07/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 122 |
Man we all see things differently eh? An arrow pointing to a pin means that data travels to the pin. So in the above case, the left arrow indicates that the data is coming out of the pin, the right arrow means data is travelling into the pin. I see it as totally unambiguous, just goes to show. Yep. Rob Gray, AKA the Graynomad, www.robgray.com |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2794 |
On that basis, does that mean an IC pin labeled +3v3 therefore functions as 3v3 output and furthermore shouldn't be connected to a 3v3 supply . . . . .  For everything Micromite visit micromite.org Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o |
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| graynomad Senior Member Joined: 21/07/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 122 |
Hah, you got us there. Maybe we have to qualify this to not include power supply signals...this is too hard. Rob Gray, AKA the Graynomad, www.robgray.com |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2794 |
The original debate was for Pin11 & Pin 12 of the 28-pin PIC (and the equivalent Pins for 44-pin PIC). These two MicroMite pins have simple dedicated comms functions with the sole purpose of connecting to a Console whenever the user is programming or debugging code. On that basis what is wrong with: Pin 11: 'To Console Rx' Pin 12: 'From Console Tx' Look back at the debate, people are saying things like 'the standard I use is . . . . '. Well all these individual NON-standards & differing opinions are making for a good debate, and explains why confusion exists. If the above suggestion makes sense to (some of) you then now look at the labels used on Page 6 of the manual. To quote the manual: Pin 11 Console Tx Pin 12 Console Rx Oohps - something wrong here somewhere. Over to someone else now  . . . . . . . .
For everything Micromite visit micromite.org Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o |
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| graynomad Senior Member Joined: 21/07/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 122 |
Where is the manual, or for that matter any information on the MicroMite? I've been all over Geoff's site and cannot find any mention of it. Google only returns a single non-TBS link in the first few pages. The TBS search returns a lot of threads but short of trawling through a 1000 posts I can see no reference to the manual. This is one allusive device. Rob Gray, AKA the Graynomad, www.robgray.com |
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| CircuitGizmos Guru Joined: 08/09/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 1421 |
But wait.... Your connector image above could be a connection to supply 5V to something else via a connector just as easily as to accept 5V to power that board. Is that a reset signal to reset the microcontroller on board the device, or is that a reset signal meant to reset the device that plugs in to that header? It isn't clear at all. What Geoff is doing - labeling the pin FUNCTION is clear. "That is the transmit pin. It transmits serial data." Makes a lot more sense than: "That is the transmit pin. It receives data from the transmit pin on the PC." Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
I prefer the way Sparkfun does it. No double meanings. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2794 |
Didn't you actually mean to say: 'That is the transmit pin. It sends data to the receive pin on the PC" Easy to get confused hey!!!! For everything Micromite visit micromite.org Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3678 |
I think he was making the point that labelling it the way he showed would be nonsense. The mites are computers so should really be showing what data does from their point of view. (Which turns into what Geoff says.) John |
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| viscomjim Guru Joined: 08/01/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 925 |
I find this conversation to be very entertaining. When I first started with Maximite and then the micromite, this console thing never was an issue. This whole thread about rx and tx on console somehow must have been explained very clearly as it never was an issue from day one. Maybe I'm just one of those DTE kind of guys that just gets the direction of serial data flow. Come to think of it, I always thought my father was a modem from another planet.... |
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| viscomjim Guru Joined: 08/01/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 925 |
sorry, one more thing. How many beta testers for micromite and how many users of maximite have ever considered this as an issue. I have not seen any forum posts that read, "I can't get my terminal program to talk to xmite as I can't seem to figure out the meaning of RX an TX." This is what happens when you have a old school dad that made modems for a living and this is what you talked about during dinner... Dad... RTS to son, how was your day..., Son, DTR (not).... |
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| bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2870 |
My Dad and I had a similar convention.... Problem was we spoke in different baud rates and could never understand each other.. 
Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5923 |
The manual was supplied with the HEX files for the beta testers. Now for my thoughts... In the manual the pins are labeled CONSOLE to differentiate them from COM1 and COM2 It would be really confusing of the Tx and RX pins for the CONSOLE serial port were reversed compared to the COM1 and COM2 ports. The MicroMite is a chip so the data direction would normally be in reference to itself - the way Geoff has it now. The only difficulties I have observed with getting the MicroMite going have been 2 instances where the user tried to use RS232 adapters instead of TTL. This resulted in the signals being inverted. Jim VK7JH MMedit  MMBasic Help |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9083 |
Perhaps another entry for the MicroMite/MMBasic Bible along the lines of: "Thou shalt NEVER bring up the subject of serial data direction labelling."
Can of worms? What's that? And who opened it? (all of the above are rhetorical!)  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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