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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Sizing Pelton wheel for F&P?

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flyingfishfinger
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Joined: 12/09/2020
Location: United States
Posts: 10
Posted: 04:49pm 04 May 2021
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  Warpspeed said  
Give some thought to the possibility of running bare overhead wires between very high poles. Steel fencing wire is ultra cheap and very strong.


Ah, that's an interesting one, I'm finding the cost of 3-conductor 600m wire to be quite high as I'm looking around.

Although I'm unsure if this is a great idea in my area, we are in a very forest-fire prone area...

R
Edited 2021-05-05 02:50 by flyingfishfinger
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 838
Posted: 09:31pm 04 May 2021
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  flyingfishfinger said  
(Aside, it's hard to "experiment" on site - our property is ~ 8 hours away from where I live, and 2 hrs to the nearest hardware store. So I & bring whatever I need for one trip, and if something doesn't match I'll have to wait a month or two until the next trip. Hence I'm trying to plan and understand as much as possible beforehand)

R


I once played around with a turbine and had no source of water. I saw testing done Commercially on YT and copied what they Did.  Just set up a pump with an IBC and ran that to give me the theoretical pressure I was designing for and set up like that.
I cut most of the top out of the IBC so the turbine Discharged back into it  but any decent tank size, Even a 44 or an old bathtub would do.  If you have a swimming pool, don't need the tank.

If you know your pressure out of a specific Nozzle Size at your site, You could use a pump to replicate that  flow and pressure and do all your testing at home where you have your resources so the thing is ready to go time you get to the property.

I used a petrol Fire fighting pump as it did good flow and pressure and I could get one  I borrowed from a mate. Have my own now and use it for watering the garden  from the water tanks and washing things down.

If you don't have one but have a Bush Block, it would be a good Investment.  They are cheap on Fleabay and work well and would be doubly useful in this application for setting up your generator where you can easily make changes and get bits and Pieces you need.
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 838
Posted: 09:40pm 04 May 2021
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  flyingfishfinger said  

Ah, that's an interesting one, I'm finding the cost of 3-conductor 600m wire to be quite high as I'm looking around.

Although I'm unsure if this is a great idea in my area, we are in a very forest-fire prone area...

R


If a break was to occur, insulated wire would probably cause exposed conductors which would be the same risk as non insulated wire. maybe more as they would all be close together and similarly exposed.
If you are Burying the wire, a breakage would be for physical reasons and be close to the fuel source when the break occurred so possibly more chance of starting a fire.

While there is a risk, this isn't  grid level HV power lines that are going to bang and dance around throwing showers of sparks and arcs if broken. Breakers or fuses closely sized should help minimise the risk by stopping the power pretty quick should a short occur.
 
flyingfishfinger
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Joined: 12/09/2020
Location: United States
Posts: 10
Posted: 11:30pm 04 May 2021
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I guess that makes sense. @Warpspeed, were you thinking about this kind of stuff?

https://redbrandstore.com/products/galvanized-smooth-wire-10-gauge-2053

On a different note, a buddy of mine suggested rectifying the HV output then using an SMPS such as this , instead of several (expensive) transformers. Any reason why NOT to do something like this?

I'm also investigating running my pipe closer to my batteries, but there's a hill in the way. Depending on the terrain I *may* be able to get around it without going uphill, but I'd have to survey that first.

R
 
Warpspeed
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Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3852
Posted: 12:06am 05 May 2021
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I am a city boy, and have never used fencing wire, but that looks like the right stuff.  
That coil is just short of half a mile long and its not that expensive.
I am sure you could pick up some very cheap secondhand insulators from somewhere.

Somewhere on the internet I did once see a mini hydro project that used a couple of modified microwave oven transformers to transfer power over a very long distance with a single steel overhead wire, and using an earth return. It was a very small system as I recall, but it ran at two to three thousand volts ac.

The earth return may raise your eyebrows, but normal electrical power here in Australia way out in the bush hundreds of miles from anywhere use this system. Google SWER or "single wire earth return"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return

To do that it needs to be a single phase system. F&P three phase would be much more efficient, but it will need three wires.

The economics change rather a lot depending on distance. If its say half a mile or more, it would probably be worth installing more expensive equipment at each end, and using a single steel overhead wire with earth return.  Shorter distances maybe three steel overhead wires.  Very short distance three core copper buried cable.

Don't really know, but there can be all sorts of unanticipated problems that may require future maintenance or replacement.  Floods, fires, storms, vehicles driven by idiots, animals, heroes doing target practice, vandals, for instance.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
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