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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : PicoMite - composite video output
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Nimue Guru  Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
/rant on/ What I see in the classroom is that these editors and the whole "blocky" approach to code is that it promotes (for staff and children) the attitude of "copy this block from the book" approach to coding. Yes, they can make Scratch Cat move, but they dont really know how and why. We have created a generation or two of children who think they can code but have no real interest / pay off for doing so -- after all, if they want a game, Call of Halo VIII will always be better than what they can code in Scratch / Make Cod. The closest is modding Minecraft, but again, that's not really transferable now its moved from Java to block coding (Microsoft again). For me getting them off Scratch and onto a proper symbolic language asap is the key. MMBasic with its BASICness yet ability to interface with hardware just works - no additional libraries - unlike Arduino/C or Micro/Circuit Python. The challenge I have is that the Twitterati of education believe that Scratch is the only way to introduce coding (yet in the 1970's and 1980's us kids managed with BASIC and dare I say it assembly!!) /rant off/ Entropy is not what it used to be |
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| Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
@led-bloon - nice work -- will be doing just that later this week. Also glad to see I'm not the only one who loads pin outs into Paint as I work. N Entropy is not what it used to be |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3019 |
So here's a question: Would 2-colour composite work for what you'd wish to use it for in MMBasic? PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
2 colour as in strict B&W? Yes. What I am attempting to do is to show teachers / students that once programmed (via terminal) that the PicoMite can run standalone (not tethered to a PC). At that point the purpose of the video out is just to monitor the output -- say a class create a simple app to display classroom temp and CO2 levels -- the video out is to display it. I know can connect a display to the PicoMite (more complexity and "little") I know I can use VGA Some use cases I thought composite would be a useful -- but this thread demonstrated the complexity I was unaware of. But to answer you question - yes, 2 colour would do the trick. N Entropy is not what it used to be |
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phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1799 |
If just text output is acceptable adding Geoff's ASCII Video Terminal to a Pico com port would work. https://geoffg.net/terminal.html It can do both VGA and Composite mono. It defaults to composite but if a VGA monitor is plugged in before it starts it switches to that. Based on a PIC32MX270. It can also use a PS/2 keyboard. But wait! There's more! USB serial to / from a PC as well! |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3019 |
Then led-bloon's post and included link show the way for a 2-pin, 2-resistor solution. The link he provided used the PIOs and was non-MMBasic, but it might be possible for Peter, if he's willing, to implement it without the need for the AD724 chip. ~ Edited 2022-08-16 22:43 by lizby PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5742 |
... providing you can still get hold of the chips. :( Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
Thanks again all - conscious of people contributing time to this. If a "simple" solution was available and it used MMBasic - I'd be up for it as this does come up a fair bit for me. Surface mount versions of that chip "appear" to be available for a few £ to the UK > happy to build something. BUT this is an edge case and I can get round it with either: VGA - works already, just needs cable swapping Add a display to the PicoMite - "easy" but add to the complexity / cost for my audience Stick to the terminal - needs the PicoMite to stay tethered and misses some opportunities. (Editing now sorted for Chromebooks) If I could build a "hat" / "shield" that plugged onto the PicoMite and it had VGA and Composite output that was switch selectable - that would be golden - Print a 3D case - tidy!!! But as said, this is an edge case.  N Entropy is not what it used to be |
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| cicciocb Regular Member  Joined: 29/04/2014 Location: FrancePosts: 70 |
Maybe you could use this simple WEB editor (it should run everywhere inside a chrome-based browser) - no installation is required Web Code Editor |
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| Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
@cicciocb -- I ended up rolling my own web editor due to the issues with Chromebooks and BACKSPACE. See https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?FID=16&TID=15101 Bring back the plug and play RF modulation of my ZX-Spectrum and Acorn Elk  N Entropy is not what it used to be |
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Rickard5 Guru Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 328 |
Being a Kid of the '70's & '80's what got me indoctrinated in to this Picomite Cult was stumbling across a local guys video about the CMM2 and being amazed at how far the decents of out beloved APPLE ][ and Speccy have come! I've always been a a real ANTI-GUI Guy, it was amazing how much we were able to accomplish with a 2.4 MHZ 16k machine, example think back to the first GEOS O/S GUI that ran off 3 180k Floppies , et today due to Lazy Code and Poor skills, Current GUI O/S take 1 TB of Storage, and 1ghz CPU and 16 gb ram for just the OS because of all the bloat from Fat Lazy Programers!Kids need to get back to basics like the Picomite that will give them Tangible results that will keep them excited. and for the life of me I'll never know why the BBC has to sabotage it's self WHAY THE CRAPPY Acorn over the Speccy for the BBC Micro ? and why the BBC Micro-Bit over the Raspberry Pi? and why Coronation Street over Shameless? and where did the this last Girl Doctor Come from REALLY ? I turned the volume on the monitor to max and could hear sound. Thanks Stanleyella |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3850 |
As someone who owned and loved them both I can say with the benefit of 30 years hindsight that when it comes to the hardware and ROM (not what games were written for the machines) the Sinclair Spectrum was a nasty piece of plastic tat with a cobbled together ROM built down to a price that didn't meet the specification that the BBC sent out to potential vendors. Whereas the BBC Micro was a thing of true beauty built to survive the apocalypse and with a ROM, O/S and BASIC written by maestros (one in particular). I don't know for certain if the BBC Micro is the best 8-bit computer, I haven't experienced many of the high-end US ones, but I suspect that it was, especially the BBC Master. Price and simplicity - you have to get to grip with quite a lot to use a Raspberry Pi, hence the desire on this group for "Boot to BASIC". No comment. Best wishes, Tom Edited 2022-08-17 03:16 by thwill Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3019 |
I tried this on chromebook and it says "www.cicciocb.com says WEB Serial API not supported. You should use Chrome, Edge, or Opera browsers". This is with "Google Chrome" browser. Should this work on a chromebook? It does look useful for PicoMite usage on chromebook. The screen comes up just as on Chrome browser on a Win10 laptop, but clicking the buttons "Connect" or "Open File" doesn't do anything. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| pwillard Senior Member  Joined: 07/06/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 274 |
A secret Dalek plot to kill the Doctor yet again... and as usual, it almost succeeded. I'd also like to know how SCRATCH prepares anyone for *actual* coding. Edited 2022-08-17 03:46 by pwillard |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5742 |
I really wish people wouldn't refer to it as "coding". You aren't writing a code (not even machine code usually), you're writing a program so the process is programming! I'm just a grumpy old git at the moment. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3019 |
Well, I'm a "programmer"; have been since 1970; not a "coder", but if someone tells me they're writing some code to do something, I understand what they mean. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3850 |
I'm a "programmer" ... I went through a period of being a "Software Engineer" or "Software Developer" ... even a "Technical Architect" for a time ... but it's all boll***s. I see precious little actually (software) engineering actually going on in my industry, artistry, inspiration and occasionally some discipline ... but mostly sewage. Best wishes, Tom Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
Currently working fine on Win10 with PicoMite connected (tested via Chrome and Edge) Picture is of it working on Chromebook in Chrome browser on Chromebook.  Your message "www.cicciocb.com says..." are you using a Pi-hole or other device? What version of Chrome are you using? The error message is not contained within the code - so not sure what is generating it. This is the link to the Google version (BACKSPACE functionality not working) https://googlechromelabs.github.io/serial-terminal/ N Entropy is not what it used to be |
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| Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
The language of the curriculum here in Wales is: Children to be taught computational thinking and to create algorithms to solve problems. The word "programming" and "coding" is avoided totally. N Entropy is not what it used to be |
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| thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3850 |
We're doomed to mediocrity - my daughter's will know how to program ... though at the moment it's just referred to as "Dad's project". Best wishes, Tom Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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