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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : age
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Mixtel90 Guru  Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5729 |
Excellent! The sign of a true nerd. Have a badge! :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1644 |
It is as I guessed, people who learnt basic in the 1980's usually on the cheapest computer they could afford. I'm 69 soon and started with zx81, then spectrum. I had a basic compiler, pss ltd., wrote some games which sold. Did some amstrad 464 game conversion, bbc basic to z80 asm. Got OU degree in "science and technology", got an amstrad "pc" to use, my first "pc". I bought a "robot" kit and then learnt pic programming to buid my own version. Years later I found picaxe, which was fun but no glcd support and was finding it too slow. I then discovered gcbasic and that it supported an arduino uno via usb and was simpler than pickit and gcbasic was much faster than picaxe. I still use gcbasic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5-5DNa36jk Now I've found MMBasic for picomite.. non vga version and am enjoying using it for glcd. I am guessing people learn a different version of basic like I have but don't actually learn Basic as a new programming language, c and python maybe but that is probably because arduino and rpi use it. As for the ladies not coding ??? is it? women work with word processors and spread sheets but I have only met one lady who could program in basic.. back in the 80's. Teaching basic on an Amstrad pc, DRdos and msdos, for the council, job creation scheme. Edited 2023-01-25 02:22 by stanleyella |
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| Michal Senior Member  Joined: 02/02/2022 Location: PolandPosts: 116 |
67 PDP-11, IBM 360, ZX SPECTRUM, AMIGA, IBM PC (Fortran, BASICA, GW BASIC, Quick BASIC, Turbo Pascal, Turbo BASIC, Delphi, fpc, Lazarus) Michal Edited 2023-01-25 03:40 by Michal |
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Martin H. Guru Joined: 04/06/2022 Location: GermanyPosts: 901 |
I dont think, we are Nerds. There were several types of computer owners from the start. Some used it as a better video game. Others wanted to know how everything works and how programs were written. And then there were those who knew the serial number of their CPU and the access times of the memory, and of course knew that a Z80 could never be as good as a 6502, but could not write a single line of code. We weren't Nerds However, since there was no internet these days, If you had an Idea, you had to write the code yourself, or pay someone, do this for you or buy a ready-made program. The learning effect and the fun came through the writing yourself. 'no comment |
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PeteCotton Guru Joined: 13/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 316 |
54 here. Been programming since 1980. My dad used to bring back a HP-85 from work to teach himself BASIC, so it was only natural that I also learned it alongside him. Whenever he was off doing other things, my brothers and I would grab the HP and type in whatever programs we could make work on the single line display ("Hunt the Wumpus"). I've been a professional programmer all of my adult life, so have dabbled in too many languages/computers/operating systems to list - but fondest memories are of my Dragon-32 (my first computer), Amstrad 6128 (first computer I bought with my own money) and my Amiga 500 (my dream computer at the time). Interestingly I'm seeing a lot of familiar computer names which I am assuming were only really popular in the UK (Dragon-32, Spectrum, ZX-80, Amstrad, BBC Micro). I've always had a gut feel that the UK had a huge amount of programmers due to those "cheap" computers. Most American programmers I know grew up on Apple II's, Atari 800s and Commodore 64's - which were usually more capable than their UK counterparts - but significantly more expensive. Whereas in the UK it seemed like almost every kid in school had a computer at home. Of course, most just used them to play games - but that allure of the basic prompt, and the ability to type stuff straight in to it, must have suckered a fair few of us in. As for women in programming - my wife is/was a programmer. But she gave it up when we started having kids - and never got back in to it. I think the difference is that to her - it's just a job - she doesn't see it as a hobby. |
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| Amnesie Guru Joined: 30/06/2020 Location: GermanyPosts: 382 |
Oh.. com'on... Am I the youngest person on this forum?  ... Greetings Daniel |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
You might be!!!! I'm 47. Atari 800XL was my first computer, played a bit with the ZX81 but there is not that much that you can do in 1K of RAM! Played with the C-64 and VIC-20, but by that stage, had got too involved with ATBASIC to want to bother to learn another BASIC. Toyed with the idea of 6502 machine language, but it frightened me off pretty quickly as being too complex. That was back in the 80's though. There was a very talented girl on the forums, but she has not posted in ages so I don't know what has become of her, and I forget her username also I think it was "Lady" something.... But I remember it being revealed that she was quite young - a teenager I think, but she took to MMBASIC like a champ and was quite a prolific poster for while. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1802 |
LadyN only lasted 6months, probably found a boyfriend. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5729 |
@PeteCotton There was a subtle difference between the US and UK home computer markets at first. The UK were a bit late on the scene, missing out on what had become relatively commonplace in US universities then schools. By the time we got the first SBCs the US could hardly find something that didn't have some sort of disk drive, or at least reasonably fast tape storage, on it and there were computer clubs everywhere. The big spenders in the US were very hungry for the latest tech and were willing to put money into replacing the dated stuff. That opened up a thriving used components market for the hobbyists. In the UK businesses had (and still have. Have you tried to get good quality used testgear in the UK?) a policy of buying hardware and expecting it to last 20 years. We never got such a second-hand market. All computer components were imported (mostly from the US), with a suitable markup of course. The US machines were incredibly expensive here, where there was already less disposable income. This was the point where the Nascom-1 was launched. You could get a working computer system (but provide your own power supply and TV) for just less than 200UKP. That was still a lot of money in 1977, but at least it was achievable, unlike 1500UKP or so (plus shipping) for a bottom-end ready-built US computer. Even selling as a kit the demand was high for such a small company because there simply wasn't an alternative if you wanted a "proper" keyboard and display. The Nascom triggered the first real home computer clubs in the UK, I think. There had been very small meetings in some areas, but the sheer cost of hardware severely limited the number of people that were interested. We had nothing like the big computer meets in the US. The US already had standards of a sort. Systems were already split between the Intel and Motorola camps, with the Intel people popularising CP/M. The UK had no standards at all. There were no big companies to set them so lots of small companies went off to do their own thing. The home computer market here was shattered. CP/M was too expensive to supply and run at this price point. Motorola CPUs were considerably more expensive than, in particular, the Z80. So we ended up with a lot of small Z80-based systems competing with Apple and Commodore (and later Atari). Apple were already far too expensive for most home users. Commodore had the huge and ugly PET, which looked really out of place in small UK rooms (and was mostly empty space inside!). They tried really hard with the C64 etc. but were apparently unwilling to give the users simple access to its capabilities from BASIC, unlike everyone else. Atari didn't really get interested in selling us computers until much later, with the ST series (which I really liked). Once Sinclair started producing the ZX80 then the ZX81 we finally had something to work with. The ZX81 was cheap and cheerful and (usually) worked well. It had a lot of limitations but people could finally afford a computer. Most already had cassette recorders and could rustle up an old TV from somewhere. The UK could finally start producing some computer programmers of its own. :) oops.... sorry for a rather long post. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
Oh, that was her name - well done, Paul.  I do remember her posting quite a bit at the time though. Wish she would come back.  It would be nice to have more young'un's in here picking up the knowledge. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
@ Mick: Yes indeed on the prices! I still remember how horribly expensive the Atari was at the time, and I bought it after LOTS of after-school jobs to raise the money, and then to buy the disk-drive was about NZ$600 at the time - more then half-a-grand for a 5.25" floppy disk drive...yikes...  Having said that, and saving for weeks in my after-school jobs, I was able to finally afford the much desired XF551 disk drive from Atari. ...only to find out it did not support full DSDD(double-sided, double-density) in the uibqutious DOS 2.5 of the time.   So, out I went and bought a copy of DOS-XE, which DID allow for full DSDD 360k disk formats - which could NOT be read by either of the common 810 or 1050 disk-drives of the time.... Sigh....  However, I did save many a disk in this DSDD format, and I did later copy those images to PC files using the likes of APE(Atari Perphireral Emulator), and I still have those PC images even today. The XF551 drive was notorious for only allowing you to format ONE side of standard disks. You could NOT notch the disk, flip it and format "Side B" as a seperate disk. The drive would not allow you to do that. I remember buying a hardware hack - even back then in the 80's - which allowed the XF551 one to format "Flippies" like any 810 or 1050 drive could do. Memories........  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Chopperp Guru Joined: 03/01/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1032 |
I'm 71 in April. Bit of 6800 machine language stuff with the old D2 kits back in the early 70's. Some Vic-20, 6502 machine code/ assembler & some BASIC stuff which I enjoyed. Not much else until the colour CMM1 came along. I attempted C on several occasions but did miserably with it. Re LadyN. I was under the impression from reading her posts that she had a whole lot of serious medical issues & wasn't expected to be around for much longer, but I hope I am wrong. Brian ChopperP |
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| PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 639 |
G'Day Brian. Sadly, I think you are correct. Peter |
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Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
In 1987 I paid nearly £150 (£400 in today's money) for a 287 maths coprocessor -- bought for Lotus123 and SimCity (one of the few games that used the FPU) On the "ladies who code" front. I see this in school/class all the time. Between 8-12 it's fairly egalitarian and equal. Post 12 it becomes 75% boys. At GCSE (exams taken at 16) and A-level (exams taken at 18) it is 95/100% boys who remain in class. Despite initiatives to address this (WISE - women in science and engineering -- since the mid 1980's) this split is fairly well entrenched. A bigger discussion would derail this fascinating thread, but the split is in no small part down to lack of visible role models AND the role that Call of Duty / Warzone / Battlefield play in recruiting boys into the field. For many, the reason they "got into computers" was to build / upgrade their kit to play the latest AAA title. Final clickbaity comment: Let's not forget that the "best" game ever (The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum) was co-authored by Veronika Megler (really interesting how the emergent behaviour of the NPCs was coded). Cheers Nimue Edited 2023-01-25 21:24 by Nimue Entropy is not what it used to be |
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PilotPirx Regular Member  Joined: 03/11/2020 Location: GermanyPosts: 66 |
I'm 59 I started with my first love, a Sinclair ZX-80. I still remember long nights typing pages and pages of hieroglyphic REM lines from poorly printed newspapers into the computer (via a nasty membrane keyboard with no feedback). This calculator could either calculate or display. But it was affordable and I could pay for it with the money from my holiday jobs, at that time about 400 DM (200 €). I wrote my first meaningful program, a vocabulary learning program, as a pupil for English class with the theme "Australia". It worked remarkably well, but I probably learned the vocabulary just by tedious typing. I continued with a Sinclair Spectrum and then, for my studies, with an Atari Mega-STE. Here I programmed in C for the first time and created programmes for testing assembled Z80-boards on an Atari ST in my diploma thesis. Professionally, I programmed microcontrollers (Fujitsu, Spansion, Infineon) in C, and now I work on industrial storage media. Privately, I'm stuck with MAC computers and program small projects with PSOC5(currently not available), ESP32, Arduino and recently with Raspberry Pico and Python. I got into MMBasic via the CMM2 and now also program the PicoMite (VGA). I have respect for what Geoff Graham and Peter Mather have put together here and for the work that has gone into it and I say thank you for the good work and that we can use it. Back to the roots, Peter |
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| stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1644 |
Sinclair got a knighthood for his business ideas. Sir clive, ha! but groovy. You could see the wealth gap in the 80's where a zx81 or spectrum was bought or a bbc or dragon32 or Memorex or vic20 or commodore 64 or amiga or atari st... tandy trs80, they had a shop here, like before maplin. update the prices of computers then, and what you got to todays prices and what you get for the same money but allowing for inflation. we get much more computer for the equivalent money, also much more info after internet invented. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
Oh no. Now that you mention her health issues.....I remember also. I wonder if anyone knows what became of her. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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LeoNicolas Guru Joined: 07/10/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 445 |
I'm 45 years old. I started with MSX Basic in the 90's. |
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PhilP Newbie  Joined: 25/01/2017 Location: United KingdomPosts: 31 |
Hello – this is my first post after many years of following the forum – one of the hundreds of silent followers. I just felt that I had to contribute to this interesting thread. I am 70 this year – the mode value in the histogram. I am really a hobby hardware guy and see microprocessors from that point of view. My background is like many in this thread although I started by building valve radios and amplifiers in my teens – survived the numerous high voltage shocks - before moving to computers. Fortran at university, ZX81, BBC B with add-ons, 8080 assembly language, a bit of PDP-8 through piano key to bootstrap, PICAXE’s, Raspberry Pi, Ardunio (I cant get my head around C++) and finally Micromites. I can recall my first test of a MX170 chip with a few external components bursting into life supplied by the White Wizard. I was amazing by the simplicity and power of MMBASIC and to Geoff for devoting his time to it. I built the MM170, which I think is still a powerful chip for many micro-control applications, into several systems in daily use e.g. weather station, security controller. I am not into game playing but that is fine for others. The coupling with the LCD makes the Backpack an ideal environment. Since my initial introduction the evolution of the mite family has been amazing with Peter, Geoff and other adding to the capabilities. It took a while to get on with the Picomite but I am building things with them now. The Forum is the first and last site I read in the morning and evening. It is always interesting and you can find new contributions at any time due the global interest. In fact I think it is partly responsible for keeping my brain active as some topics are tricky to get you head around e.g.PIO– anti-dementia aid?? As I have a wide range of interests, I don’t spend a huge amount of time programming so when I return to a project I have do an element of re-learning. I had to modify a PICAXE project recently and that was tough. Also the Forum is so active, an interesting post quickly slips to old pages – I need a way of referencing them. Anyway thanks to Geoff and Peter in particular but everyone that makes this Forum interesting, even exciting. Phil |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5729 |
Congratulations on your first post, Phil! I started with valve amplifiers too. I still love them and I have a box of components just waiting to be assembled into one, actually. :) I love the little 28-pin '170 too. When I first tried one it was like magic - even just having the editor on a PIC chip, never mind the rest of MMBasic. :) There aren't many other BASIC platforms that will fit on a scrap of ordinary stripboard. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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