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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Accessing CMM2 from remote computer

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elk1984

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Joined: 11/07/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 228
Posted: 01:39pm 14 Sep 2020
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A couple of questions about accessing the CMM2 from a different computer.

I am currently accessing my CMM2 using Tera Term, attached via a USB cable which my PC is seeing as a COM port.  

Is it possible to access the CMM2 from a different machine on the network (some kind of request forwarding from the PC the CMM2 is physically attached to)?

Is there any way of getting the CMM2 display (as sent to the VGA port)?  TeraTerm is great for text, but custom modes, fonts etc. aren't displayed as it's a terminal style connection.

Why do I want to do this?  Because it's a nice day and I'd prefer to work on my CMM2 in the garden rather than be stuck indoors (and prefer not taking a monitor etc. outside to do that).
 
mkopack73
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Joined: 03/07/2020
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Posted: 01:55pm 14 Sep 2020
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Not directly related but since you mention wanting to take the CMM2 outside...  I’ve ordered and am waiting on a NexDock2 unit which I’m hoping will work on the CMM2 (the keyboard is likely the biggest stumbling block as well as having to somehow convert the vga to hdmi). (I bought it for use with a RasPi 4 but if I can get it to work with the cmm2 all the better).
 
lizby
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Posted: 03:56pm 14 Sep 2020
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Check out this thread with ESP-01 wireless.

Or perhaps you're looking for remote access with something like Windows Remote Desktop: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/remote/remote-desktop-services/clients/remote-desktop-allow-access
Edited 2020-09-15 02:00 by lizby
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NPHighview

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Joined: 02/09/2020
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Posts: 203
Posted: 05:14pm 14 Sep 2020
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Even though the built-in editor is "fine", I've got decades of experience, and muscle memory, using a different one.  

Is there a way to have a "dual-ported" SD card that can be written to by a PC or Mac, and instantly read from by the CMM2?  That way, I could edit mmBasic files on my main computer, and they would immediately appear on the B: drive for loading into the CMM2.

EDIT: I just found this thread https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?TID=12607 which looks like it'll work just fine (and NotePad++ is my default editor)

Thanks!
Edited 2020-09-15 03:21 by NPHighview
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mkopack73
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Posted: 05:49pm 14 Sep 2020
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  NPHighview said  Even though the built-in editor is "fine", I've got decades of experience, and muscle memory, using a different one.  

Is there a way to have a "dual-ported" SD card that can be written to by a PC or Mac, and instantly read from by the CMM2?  That way, I could edit mmBasic files on my main computer, and they would immediately appear on the B: drive for loading into the CMM2.

EDIT: I just found this thread https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?TID=12607 which looks like it'll work just fine (and NotePad++ is my default editor)

Thanks!


I tried using a 3rd party device that plugs into an SD slot and takes a mSD card that is supposed to expose the mSD as a Samba file share over WiFi. That way you could have this in your CMM2 which would directly read the card, but be able to read and write code from your windows machine accessing the card over the WiFi network as a shared folder.

Unfortunately while it works fine (albeit slow) when plugged into my Prusa Mk3 3D printer, no go when plugged into the CmM2 or any other device I have with an SD slot...
 
datawiz

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Joined: 10/08/2020
Location: United States
Posts: 26
Posted: 06:28pm 14 Sep 2020
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  elk1984 said  A couple of questions about accessing the CMM2 from a different computer.

I am currently accessing my CMM2 using Tera Term, attached via a USB cable which my PC is seeing as a COM port.  

Is it possible to access the CMM2 from a different machine on the network (some kind of request forwarding from the PC the CMM2 is physically attached to)?

Is there any way of getting the CMM2 display (as sent to the VGA port)?  TeraTerm is great for text, but custom modes, fonts etc. aren't displayed as it's a terminal style connection.

Why do I want to do this?  Because it's a nice day and I'd prefer to work on my CMM2 in the garden rather than be stuck indoors (and prefer not taking a monitor etc. outside to do that).


Interesting problem! I'm sure there are many ways to tackle this one, of varying difficulties and costs.

I would probably repurpose an older/unused laptop to sit next to the CMM2 in my office. I'd pick up a VGA to USB capture device and use it to capture the VGA output of the CMM2 and connect it to the laptop and run the included software to display the VGA output on the laptop monitor. Then, I'd plug in the USB-B interface to the same laptop to power the CMM2 and use Tera Term to control the keyboard input of the CMM2 over serial.
Once you've done that, make sure the CMM2 laptop is on your network, and configure some remote desktop server software on the CMM2 laptop (Windows RDP,VNC, etc) and allow it to accept connections from your other laptop.

From the garden laptop, install the remote desktop client software, and configure it to connect to the IP address of your CMM2 laptop. Once connected to the CMM2 laptop, you'll have access to the VGA output and USB input.

Of course, there are some downsides. You need a second laptop (or desktop) and a vga capture device to start. All the real action is happening on the CMM2 laptop and not directly on your garden laptop. The VGA output will suffer some delay, due to the capture to the PC and transport over IP and Wifi. Audio isn't handled here, but the video capture device may support analog audio capture. Writing code over a remote session doesn't sound like fun to me, due to the response delay. But that may be an acceptable compared to the benefits of garden CMM2 computing.  

Regards,
Rich/dw
 
datawiz

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Posts: 26
Posted: 06:36pm 14 Sep 2020
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  NPHighview said  
EDIT: I just found this thread https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?TID=12607 which looks like it'll work just fine (and NotePad++ is my default editor)


If you need any help with the library or included utilities, feel free to reach out. I use it as part of my workflow to write code in Notepad++ on my PC, and transfer it over wifi to the CMM2 using a macro to call the transfer python script, and so far it's been working well. I haven't written any utilities to move data from the CMM2 to a PC, but all the fundamentals are there in the library to do it.

I wanted to write some code to transfer in the other direction, but I got caught up in learning how to use sprites and graphics... lol

Also, I did run across a language file for MMBasic syntax highlighting for Notepad++. I don't have the link for the download handy, but I can go back and find it if you need it-- just let me know.

Rich/dw
 
datawiz

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Posted: 06:51pm 14 Sep 2020
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  datawiz said  
Of course, there are some downsides. You need a second laptop (or desktop) and a vga capture device to start.


I took a look at the available VGA capture devices on the market, and found nothing reasonably priced new. I guess VGA capture just isn't as popular as it used to be (was it ever)... lol. But there are a bunch of HDMI capture devices available (thanks to lots of streamers)

YMMV, but there are some really inexpensive ones from China:
VGA Capture over USB at Aliexpress

Another option might be to get an inexpensive HDMI to USB capture device, and another inexpensive VGA to HDMI converter, convert VGA to HDMI then into the HDMI capture card and into your laptop via USB. There's more downsides--increased latency, and potentially incompatibility with certain resolutions/video modes depending on how good the VGA to HDMI conversion is/underlying chipset and electronics. Another YMMV.
 
HellbentHorse
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Joined: 08/07/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 55
Posted: 07:37pm 14 Sep 2020
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I'm also in the middle of investigating a setup that works well for my purposes.

Currently there is a laptop and a larger monitor sitting on my desk, the monitor can accept VGA, along with HDMI and the usual display port types.

If I plug the VGA cable from the CMM2 into the monitor, and the CMM2 into my laptop to control via the serial port, will anything I type also reflect on the monitor, and any graphical programs I run will appear on the monitor?
 
elk1984

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Joined: 11/07/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 228
Posted: 08:08pm 14 Sep 2020
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  HellbentHorse said  I'm also in the middle of investigating a setup that works well for my purposes.

Currently there is a laptop and a larger monitor sitting on my desk, the monitor can accept VGA, along with HDMI and the usual display port types.

If I plug the VGA cable from the CMM2 into the monitor, and the CMM2 into my laptop to control via the serial port, will anything I type also reflect on the monitor, and any graphical programs I run will appear on the monitor?


That's the "at desk" setup I currently use. Tera Term for input from my PC, output direct from the CMM2 into a different monitor. It works well and saves me having to have a separate keyboard for the CMM2. I was finding two keyboards a bind often typing commands for the PC into the CMM2 whenever I context switched to The Back Shed for some help  
 
HellbentHorse
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Location: Australia
Posts: 55
Posted: 08:10pm 14 Sep 2020
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  elk1984 said  That's the "at desk" setup I currently use. Tera Term for input from my PC, output direct from the CMM2 into a different monitor. It works well and saves me having to have a separate keyboard for the CMM2. I was finding two keyboards a bind often typing commands for the PC into the CMM2 whenever I context switched to The Back Shed for some help  


Thanks for confirming. I literally just came back here now to edit my post to advise I had found the section in the user manual advising just that. Should probably go back to taking my own dose of RTFM (or just have some more coffee for now!).
 
elk1984

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Joined: 11/07/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 228
Posted: 08:19pm 14 Sep 2020
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  datawiz said  
  elk1984 said  A couple of questions about accessing the CMM2 from a different computer.

I am currently accessing my CMM2 using Tera Term, attached via a USB cable which my PC is seeing as a COM port.  

Is it possible to access the CMM2 from a different machine on the network (some kind of request forwarding from the PC the CMM2 is physically attached to)?

Is there any way of getting the CMM2 display (as sent to the VGA port)?  TeraTerm is great for text, but custom modes, fonts etc. aren't displayed as it's a terminal style connection.

Why do I want to do this?  Because it's a nice day and I'd prefer to work on my CMM2 in the garden rather than be stuck indoors (and prefer not taking a monitor etc. outside to do that).


Interesting problem! I'm sure there are many ways to tackle this one, of varying difficulties and costs.

I would probably repurpose an older/unused laptop to sit next to the CMM2 in my office. I'd pick up a VGA to USB capture device and use it to capture the VGA output of the CMM2 and connect it to the laptop and run the included software to display the VGA output on the laptop monitor. Then, I'd plug in the USB-B interface to the same laptop to power the CMM2 and use Tera Term to control the keyboard input of the CMM2 over serial.
Once you've done that, make sure the CMM2 laptop is on your network, and configure some remote desktop server software on the CMM2 laptop (Windows RDP,VNC, etc) and allow it to accept connections from your other laptop.

From the garden laptop, install the remote desktop client software, and configure it to connect to the IP address of your CMM2 laptop. Once connected to the CMM2 laptop, you'll have access to the VGA output and USB input.

Of course, there are some downsides. You need a second laptop (or desktop) and a vga capture device to start. All the real action is happening on the CMM2 laptop and not directly on your garden laptop. The VGA output will suffer some delay, due to the capture to the PC and transport over IP and Wifi. Audio isn't handled here, but the video capture device may support analog audio capture. Writing code over a remote session doesn't sound like fun to me, due to the response delay. But that may be an acceptable compared to the benefits of garden CMM2 computing.  

Regards,
Rich/dw


Great idea. Thanks. I hadn't thought about using a video capture card and remote desktop. Will definitely give that a go and come back with my findings (this is where the UK weather rains solidly for a month)
 
lizby
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Posts: 3378
Posted: 08:44pm 14 Sep 2020
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  elk1984 said   . . . I hadn't thought about using a video capture card and remote desktop. Will definitely give that a go and come back with my findings


Somebody has already done the video capture side, and I've ordered the parts, but I've lost track of the thread--VGA To HDMI Adapter Cable and then 4K HDMI To USB 2.0 3.0 Loop Out Graphics Capture.
PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed
 
Womble

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Joined: 09/07/2020
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Posts: 267
Posted: 08:18pm 17 Sep 2020
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  lizby said  
  elk1984 said   . . . I hadn't thought about using a video capture card and remote desktop. Will definitely give that a go and come back with my findings


Somebody has already done the video capture side, and I've ordered the parts, but I've lost track of the thread--VGA To HDMI Adapter Cable and then 4K HDMI To USB 2.0 3.0 Loop Out Graphics Capture.

I believe This was the thread  to which you are referring, Nimue suggested that method.

My thread on VGA to USB capture
Edited 2020-09-18 06:51 by Womble
 
HellbentHorse
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Joined: 08/07/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 55
Posted: 08:03pm 18 Sep 2020
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  elk1984 said  That's the "at desk" setup I currently use. Tera Term for input from my PC, output direct from the CMM2 into a different monitor. It works well and saves me having to have a separate keyboard for the CMM2. I was finding two keyboards a bind often typing commands for the PC into the CMM2 whenever I context switched to The Back Shed for some help  


Just set my desk up like this today and happy to report all working great.

Video output looks crispy on my 27" 1080p IPS screen and serial console is as fast as typing on my other computer.

Happy days, now to get to programming.
 
elk1984

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Joined: 11/07/2020
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Posts: 228
Posted: 09:20am 19 Sep 2020
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  HellbentHorse said  
  elk1984 said  That's the "at desk" setup I currently use. Tera Term for input from my PC, output direct from the CMM2 into a different monitor. It works well and saves me having to have a separate keyboard for the CMM2. I was finding two keyboards a bind often typing commands for the PC into the CMM2 whenever I context switched to The Back Shed for some help  


Just set my desk up like this today and happy to report all working great.

Video output looks crispy on my 27" 1080p IPS screen and serial console is as fast as typing on my other computer.

Happy days, now to get to programming.


I did notice an interesting quirk with this setup. Normal input works well, but my program uses KEYDOWN to read the arrow keys. It might be me, but that only seems to work with a keyboard physically attached to the CMM2.
 
HellbentHorse
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Posted: 09:33am 19 Sep 2020
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  elk1984 said  I did notice an interesting quirk with this setup. Normal input works well, but my program uses KEYDOWN to read the arrow keys. It might be me, but that only seems to work with a keyboard physically attached to the CMM2.


I haven't noticed this yet but will have to test and see.
 
matherp
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Posted: 09:36am 19 Sep 2020
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From the manual

  Quote  Return the decimal ASCII value of the USB keyboard key that is currently held down or zero if no key is down.  


Keydown can't work on a remote keyboard as the PC doesn't pass the keydown, keyup information - just the ascii code or escape sequence
 
elk1984

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Posted: 10:54am 19 Sep 2020
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  matherp said  From the manual

  Quote  Return the decimal ASCII value of the USB keyboard key that is currently held down or zero if no key is down.  


Keydown can't work on a remote keyboard as the PC doesn't pass the keydown, keyup information - just the ascii code or escape sequence


Thanks. I'd guessed it was something like the terminal can't pass values to the CMM2 in the same way.

That's another library of code to be added to my app - reconfigurable keys  

I'm really enjoying having to build solutions to these scenarios from the ground up again - too many years having all this stuff done for me...
 
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