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Forum Index : EV's : Electric cars a waste of money
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norcold Guru  Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Well 912hp, must have one fitted to my 4 wheeled esky.  Jokes aside
Interesting battery tech originating from NASA, bet there`s a bit more than salt water involved, will keep a close eye on this. Could be the leap we need. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
In the film "Who killed the electric car?" they had started to build roofed over solar powered charging stations; they kept the cars (and batts) cool in California and charged while parking. Saw charging stations in Berlin recently. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
I don't see as many Toyota Prius cars as I hoped for. Electric car hype passed without much impact. George |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5019 |
I would give it 5 years. Companies like Tesla are making some really good cars now, with good range. They are still expensive, but when you look at the specs of the car and what features are included, they really are luxury/sports cars and in the right price range. Plus Tesla are pushing battery swapping stations, so range wont be the issue it once was for long trips. I think the USA will be the place to watch over the next few years, they are starting to get their economy going and pushing innovation. I think they are tired of fighting wars in the oil rich middle east and are turning to renewables to become energy independent. Here in Australia we are a little behind the 8 ball, plus we have large distances to travel, so electric is slow to get going. But in a couple of years the local car manufacturers will shut up shop, so all those support companies will be looking for ways to use their equipment and skilled workers. The aftermarket EV conversion industry is one area that could see a lot of growth. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
Read an article that says a lot of potential owners have distance anxiety. Suppose Tesla can deliver 500km in one trip, but Sydney to Melbourne and Sydney to Brisbane is more than that. Most trips are well under 100km, but people like to know that they have surplus, not only to last the trip, but also to not worry to re-charge every time they use car as it might not last the next trip. Fastest charging is 30 minutes, but not every car can be charged that fast even if charging station can do it. Another thing is the price of batteries with their Battery Management System. But I like to see that EV's are gaining momentum and lots of people spend a lot of money to have them. Hope that it will be as with solar panels and price will start to drop with numbers. George |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
From what I hear on the grapevine there are 2011,2012 ex lease EV's hitting the market and struggling to find buyers. In a market where there is very few buyers ready to make the jump plus a backlog of stock in dealers yards and new models out for 2016, prices on 2nd-hand and deals on new leases will be very good value. I personally feel that the worry over battery life is not justified however I do have some reservations about the dealer networks ability to repair minor faults, some anecdotal evidence is that battery packs will be replaced rather than fix connection faults or drivetrain software upgrades are not being installed as part of the maintenance. I just had a look online and there are nissan leaf for sale 2011-12 with low mileage in the USA for between $7500 and $11500. Honestly, for that price it is not economical to replace the battery,get it serviced outside the dealer network, drive it till it stops, sell it for parts and buy another one. that is some seriously cheap motoring! I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
I am pretty sure that if similar incentives as to Solar PV Systems were introduced, electric cars would get on a radar of more users. Even simple things as free freeway, free parking, reduced taxes on cars as in Norway, or anything that could make electric car cheaper, would be an injection of users that otherwise have to wait to make electric car more attractive to them. Right now I don't travel too much, but I don't think of filling up fuel tank for weeks and this is how I like it. I could charge car daily, but it would be daunting task for me and at times I would wake up at night, to think if I have enough electric power to get where I want to go and most importantly BACK home. George |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
My son-in-law finally got his Holden Volt in Melbourne. His trip to his practice is just short enough to charge it up at the end of the day. But it is a hybrid, so he will not be stuck anyway. He has 3kW or more on the roof, which helps during the day and if he has a special meter, then he can charge his car with cheaper night electricity. I do not know if this can be done in Melbourne. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
I scratched out some numbers on total cost of ownership on the back of an envelope. new and used at 40,000 km/yr and 20,000 km/yr EV vs ICE EV used 40K..13 cents/km EV used 20K..18 cents/km EV new 40K ..20 cents/km EV new 20K ..33 cents/km ICE used40K..23 cents/km ICE used20K..30 cents/km ICE new 40K..33 cents/km ICE new 20K..52 cents/km I have taken the middle ground with running costs and had a guess at service and repair costs, I have no clue about that, I have always done my own. depreciation is included but not taxation. cars are run for 7 years. no road tolls, speeding tickets or parking included. 40,000km/yr is the practical limit of a 2012 nissan leaf without fast charging. Its not hard to see why EV owners look so smug 
I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Would they need a battery change after 7 x 40k or 280k? If 280k is the life of a Leaf, then it looks as good as a diesel. Don't want to sound pedantic but a battery change has to be included for the total cost over seven years and you may have done that as part of your depreciation calc. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
I added a thousand bucks a year to the cost of the used EV's and depreciated the new ones by 70%. Battery life is defined as the point when the capacity is at 80% of factory specs. If you drive 90km or less between charges and dont drive like a maniac the car would still be perfectly usable for a lot longer. 7 years @ 6 days a week driving is 2100 heavy charge cycles, sneaking a partial charge in at work or at the shops will also change the numbers for the better. statistically the modern turbo diesel is the least reliable and the most expensive vehicle to fix so as used car buyers we need luck or some inside knowledge on reliable models to get one that lasts (or a good mechanic). I have found that any savings on fuel dont outweigh the cost of repairs. I reckon you could give the EV's +/- 4 cents and the ICE vehicles +/- 10 cents as a range depending on individual costs and preferences, nothing is set in stone. The worst possible TCO I can think of is crashing a newly leased car in your early twenties and being charged with drink driving. The consequences swallow every dollar you earn for years after. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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