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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : CMM2: Welcome Tape

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thwill

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Joined: 16/09/2019
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Posted: 04:00pm 06 Aug 2020
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Spun off from https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?TID=12378&P=3

Hi folks,

Subject to approval from the community I propose to create a "Welcome Tape" for the CMM2 c.f. those that came with 8-bit microcomputers.

This would be in the form of a "welcome.zip" which a newbie could extract onto their SD to create an "A:/welcome" folder.

They then execute:
RUN "welcome/welcome.bas"


Which would launch an introduction animation / splash-screen and then show a menu of programs that could be run.

Each included program would be written so that when it ended gracefully (i.e. not Ctrl-C) it would return to the menu program.

I only propose to write the launcher program (though hopefully someone else will volunteer to make it pretty), curate the contents and produce the archive.

The content I hope to take from (mostly) pre-existing material subject to its author's permission, my current shortlist is:

- Gomoku - puzzle game
- Lunar Lander
- Eliza
- Peter's graphics demos (rotating shapes, etc.)
- Bill & Jim's implementation of Conway's Game of Life
- the recent turtle demos
- something based on Mauro's PSG Demo
- a text adventure
   - I'll have to find one in BASIC as I'm reluctant to include Z-MIM because the interpreter itself is not code that a beginner can understand and the adventures/stories are binary blobs
- a speech example

All due credits will be included.

The archive would be licensed under the same terms as material on Fruit of the Shed: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/.

Without any expectation that they will do so, my intention is that the archive would be suitable (in terms of licensing, content and quality) that the hardware vendors could include it FOR FREE on an SD distributed with the CMM2 if they so choose.

My questions to the community are:

1. Is this a worthwhile activity?

2. Does anyone object to me being the one who does this project, or does somebody else want to volunteer to do it ?
   Note that if is is me then:
       - I will be uploading any included content to a public GitHub repository to help me curate it.
       - It is also likely I will reformat the content for consistency.

3. Do Geoff, Peter or any of the other principals object to this project ?

4. I will be attempting to contact the authors of the proposed content to seek their blessing, but if any of them want to "speak up" on this thread then that will save me the effort.

I hope this meets with approval,

Best wishes,

Tom
Edited 2020-08-07 02:12 by thwill
CMM2 Welcome Tape, Z-MIM: Zork on the CMM2
 
CircuitGizmos

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Joined: 08/09/2011
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Posts: 1286
Posted: 06:48pm 06 Aug 2020
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I think this is a great idea.

At this point (things could change) I don't want to offer SD cards separately or bundled with a CMM. I'd have to buy them in bulk and sell for less than most people would find on sale in order for the card to be attractive. And I would need to buy from a trusted vendor. There are too many 16 gigabyte cards that are sold as 64 gig cards that I would have to test each one. And likely if I found a good price, it would be a fake.

BUT - having the welcome stuff available as downloadable so that people can use their own card is fantastic. I'm sure something I wrote is somewhere in the old library and you have my permission to use my crappy code.  

This is a great contribution and I appreciate you taking the helm.
Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite
 
JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
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Posts: 2237
Posted: 07:35pm 06 Aug 2020
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It sounds a good idea.

I suppose it needs some sort of message for people to ask questions (er, here?) but not to expect Geoff, Peter et al to reply about code they didn't write (I think they've enough work as it is) but other than that it could let newbies see what can be done & how.

Well done!

John
 
Daren
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Joined: 05/08/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 25
Posted: 09:16pm 06 Aug 2020
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Yes, sounds like a great idea, some little code snippets would be handy too.
 
vegipete

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Joined: 29/01/2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 524
Posted: 09:16pm 06 Aug 2020
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Cool Idea! Anything I've posted here is fair game.
 
Geoffg

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Joined: 06/06/2011
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Posted: 09:28pm 06 Aug 2020
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Excellent idea, full support from me.

If it works out I would like to have it as a download on my website beside the latest version of the firmware.

Geoff
Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net
 
thwill

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Joined: 16/09/2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 973
Posted: 11:02pm 06 Aug 2020
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  CircuitGizmos said  ... At this point (things could change) I don't want to offer SD cards separately or bundled with a CMM. I'd have to buy them in bulk and sell for less than most people would find on sale in order for the card to be attractive ...
This is a great contribution and I appreciate you taking the helm.


Thanks. I rather assumed as much, but by pretending it might happen I think I will make better decisions regarding what content to include and the level of quality to strive for.

  JohnS said  I suppose it needs some sort of message for people to ask questions (er, here?) but not to expect Geoff, Peter et al to reply about code they didn't write (I think they've enough work as it is) but other than that it could let newbies see what can be done & how.


Yes, I'll definitely direct users to TBS from the launcher, probably when it quits. Hopefully there are more than enough helpful folks here to answer any questions, and I'm rather assuming I am accepting a reasonable share of that responsibility by doing the curating in the first place.

  Daren said  Yes, sounds like a great idea, some little code snippets would be handy too.


Hi Daren, code snippets don't fit in with my vision for this, but you might look near the bottom of this page: http://fruitoftheshed.com/Colour%20MaxiMite%202%20(CMM2).Example-games-and-other-programs.ashx.

The chosen content will be fairly simple but self contained programs demonstrating the CMM2's capabilities and presented to a basic but professional standard. There will be a couple of games and hopefully one really impressive sound and graphics demo. No more than a dozen programs in total so it can easily be collated and maintained by a single person; though I'm hoping I will get some help especially on jazzing up the launcher/menu program.

  vegipete said  Cool Idea! Anything I've posted here is fair game.


Thank you Pete, that provides a lot of potential content.

  Geoffg said  Excellent idea, full support from me.

If it works out I would like to have it as a download on my website beside the latest version of the firmware.


Thanks Geoff, as you say assuming "it works out" then this would be the ultimate seal of approval.

Best wishes,

Tom
Edited 2020-08-07 09:05 by thwill
CMM2 Welcome Tape, Z-MIM: Zork on the CMM2
 
thwill

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Posts: 973
Posted: 11:13pm 06 Aug 2020
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Incidentally does anyone have a simple text adventure game (in any BASIC dialect, I don't mind doing the porting) that could be included? Nothing of dubious provenance, i.e. no type-ins from books.

Otherwise I'll start asking in some of the retro computing groups that I haunt.

Regards,

Tom
Edited 2020-08-07 09:13 by thwill
CMM2 Welcome Tape, Z-MIM: Zork on the CMM2
 
bigmik

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Joined: 20/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 2398
Posted: 03:16am 07 Aug 2020
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Hi Tom, All,

I would love to love to see this distro...

If it looks well organised and I can find a distributor of quality SD cards I am happy to include one with every CMM2 I sell.

I test every unit with a whole range of programs including Jims great IO tester... To put each through their paces.. I have thought of creating a run one after the other program to make the testing job easier...

Regards,

Mick
Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<<
 
capsikin
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Joined: 30/06/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 336
Posted: 05:32am 07 Aug 2020
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  thwill said  Incidentally does anyone have a simple text adventure game (in any BASIC dialect, I don't mind doing the porting) that could be included? Nothing of dubious provenance, i.e. no type-ins from books.

Otherwise I'll start asking in some of the retro computing groups that I haunt.

Regards,

Tom

Not me. I remember seeing a tiny text adventure on youtube, but the person had ported it from someone else's version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d2g5BXdyfU
Tiny Text Adventure: From ZX81 to VIC-20 to Ultimate 64
8-Bit Show And Tell
 
Hark0

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Joined: 02/07/2020
Location: Spain
Posts: 31
Posted: 08:25am 07 Aug 2020
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Ideal for a CMM2 noobs like me.
ZX-UNO: ZX-Spectrum Clone with FPGA
 
Plasmamac

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Joined: 31/01/2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 23
Posted: 10:51am 07 Aug 2020
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  Hark0 said      

Ideal for a CMM2 noobs like me.



thats what it call "understatement"  .
ok CMM2 noob maybe, but a Basic Guru   .



Greetings from the old GLB Front
Edited 2020-08-07 21:10 by Plasmamac
Plasma/Panno/preplasma and IFT99 :)
 
MauroXavier
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Joined: 06/03/2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 227
Posted: 12:25pm 07 Aug 2020
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I can make a simplified version of PSGlib and PSGDemo with a better source code indentation with comments to turn it more understandable to anyone.
 
cletus3x

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Joined: 31/07/2020
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Posted: 07:37pm 07 Aug 2020
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Agree.  This sounds awesome Tom!
 
thwill

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Posts: 973
Posted: 10:28pm 07 Aug 2020
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  MauroXavier said  I can make a simplified version of PSGlib and PSGDemo with a better source code indentation with comments to turn it more understandable to anyone.


That sounds great, but if it is for the "Welcome Tape" specifically then you might want to hold off whilst I investigate whether the other items can actually be pulled together.

Regards,

Tom
CMM2 Welcome Tape, Z-MIM: Zork on the CMM2
 
Andrew_G
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Joined: 18/10/2016
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Posts: 486
Posted: 05:50am 08 Aug 2020
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Great idea Tom.
I've fixed a minor "untidiness" in LunarLander2 v6 and posted a new zip here.

It is based on work by several shedders (noted in the .BAS) but I'd be more than happy for that to be deleted and just say something like "developed by several TBS members . . ."

One thing to think about is how programs are updated, eg by their original authors or others - how best to identify and control the versions??

Many thanks,

Andrew
 
thwill

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Posted: 08:35am 08 Aug 2020
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  Andrew_G said  One thing to think about is how programs are updated, eg by their original authors or others - how best to identify and control the versions?


Thanks Andrew,

The source for the "tape" will be in a public GitHub repo so anyone can clone and make a pull request for a change to be included in the main branch. Once I've put a framework in place hopefully there will be some volunteer "collaborators" so I am not the sole person vetting pull requests.

I'm on holiday for a few days at the moment, but when I get back my intention is to put together a very rough version 0.1 so we all have something to look at and improve.

Many thanks for all those who have agreed that I can include their contributions.

Best wishes,

Tom
CMM2 Welcome Tape, Z-MIM: Zork on the CMM2
 
thwill

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Posts: 973
Posted: 10:58pm 10 Aug 2020
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Hi folks,

I have started to compose this, and as you might imagine it has the potential to be a bigger job than I initially suspected.

One major headache is with licensing. Initially my intent was to use the same as that used by FruitOfTheShed, i.e. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/. However the creators/promoters of that license explicitly state it is "inappropriate for software" https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-commons-license-to-software

What would people (especially those who have given permission for use of their code) say to using the MIT License (under which all my CMM2 code has been licensed so far). This basically allows people to do what they like as long as they preserve the copyright notice and distribute the LICENSE text, see https://choosealicense.com/licenses/mit/.

The text is short and simple ...

MIT License

Copyright (c) [year] [fullname]

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all
copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE
SOFTWARE.


... but does leave open the issue of what to put for [fullname] ... I'm inclined to say "The Back Shed" or "The Back Shedders" but I think the intent is that it supposed to an actual person or legal entity (company/organisation).

Another licensing related issue (and making no judgements) is that it is clear (and usually announced) that many of the examples being posted have not been the sole work of shedders but have earlier often uncited antecedants. This is not surprising because most BASIC in the wild predates the official open-source movement (and thus has no official licenses attached to it) but is part of the more open, sharing environment of the 70's and early 80's when any short piece of code seems to have been considered fair game to copy and share. I'm inclined not to worry too much about this personally as it seems highly unlikely any of the original authors will ever notice the CMM2 and even more unlikely that they would object to our intended use of the code.

Any thoughts?

Tom
CMM2 Welcome Tape, Z-MIM: Zork on the CMM2
 
Sasquatch

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Posted: 11:57pm 10 Aug 2020
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How about "Without license or Warranty of any kind"  

Seriously anything I have posted is fair game and as far as attribution goes, something like "Implemented on CMM2" or "Converted to MMBasic" sounds ok to me.  Most of my demos are from public sources and I just tweak them to work on the CMM2.
-Carl
 
Hark0

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Joined: 02/07/2020
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Posted: 07:18am 11 Aug 2020
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  Plasmamac said  
  Hark0 said      

Ideal for a CMM2 noobs like me.



thats what it call "understatement"  .
ok CMM2 noob maybe, but a Basic Guru   .



Greetings from the old GLB Front


           

Hello!!!! GLBasic..... oh men.... I remember!!!  
ZX-UNO: ZX-Spectrum Clone with FPGA
 
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